The Power of Vulnerability: Unlocking True Connection and Growth (Season 2 Finale)

What if embracing your deepest fears could be the key to unlocking healthier relationships and personal growth? This episode, Monica and Serah tackle the profound theme of emotional vulnerability, shedding light on why it's so difficult for many of us to be open about our struggles, mistakes, and deepest emotions. Drawing from personal experiences and societal norms, they discuss how fear of judgment and cultural upbringing have conditioned many to keep their issues private, inadvertently stunting emotional growth. Yet, they argue, true connection and understanding arise from breaking down these walls and embracing our authentic selves.

Throughout the episode, we explore the delicate art of recognizing and responding to others' subtle calls for help. Monica and Serah emphasize the vital role of being attentive and compassionate listeners over becoming problem solvers. They delve into the courage it takes to ask for help, whether that be financial support or seeking therapy. Vulnerability, they affirm, requires humility and creating a safe space free from judgment, allowing individuals to share their struggles without fear of repercussions.

As we close out the season, the power of vulnerability in fostering personal and relational growth takes center stage. Monica and Serah reflect on their journey through the podcast, sharing how the act of being open and honest has not only aided their healing but also aimed to inspire others. This episode underscores the importance of bravery, self-awareness, and the therapeutic impact of sharing our stories. By exploring the risks and rewards of being vulnerable, they highlight how breaking down emotional walls leads to more genuine connections and a more profound understanding of self and others.

https://www.betterhelp.com
https://www.talkspace.com
https://growtherapy.com

Transcript

Embracing Emotional Vulnerability

Speaker 2 0:18

Hello , hello hello , hey guys . What's going on ? My name is Monica and I'm Sarah , and this is Bust bms podcast . Welcome back , we back , we back , we back after a long . It's been a minute . It's been a minute . Life got real , um so uh , we're circling .

Speaker 2 0:37

Back is also our season finale episode I know season two will be a wrap and then we're back for season three in the fall . Yes , so , so happy that you guys can join us and hope that y'all guys can go back and listen to those episodes that you maybe have not had a chance to in the season .

Speaker 1 0:57

Let us know what you think . I know this has been such a good ride . It has been such a good ride it has been . Yes , yes , yes , it also went by , really fast .

Speaker 2 1:06

I think it did , it did , it did . You know , life is life-y , time is moving . Like I don't know how we got to June , but we're here . I know .

Speaker 1 1:22

But I also feel like we've been .

Speaker 2 1:24

Yes , because it's definitely not easy . And , speaking about that , you know today what are we talking about , sarah .

Speaker 1 1:30

We're talking about emotional vulnerability .

Speaker 2 1:34

Yes , it's just something we have been . We've touched on it , right .

Speaker 1 1:38

I think it's different . We've touched on it without talking about it . Right , right .

Speaker 2 1:41

Maybe we've talked under it , over it , but somehow in relation to what vulnerability means , how to be vulnerable , our journeys in being more vulnerable and what it looks like . Yeah , and so that's just something that we were like . You know we need to talk about this because , you know , I'm sure it affects a lot of people and we're not the only ones feeling like this . Yeah , so we here not the only ones feeling like this . So , yeah , we here . So what ?

Speaker 1 2:09

would you say like um emotional vulnerability is ? I feel like we found so many different definitions right when we were trying to hone in and pick one special like definition , yeah but one that I can share is the feeling of being exposed to emotional harm or attack , or the willingness to take risks , to share emotions and thoughts . This can include sharing personal details , talking about mistakes or feeling difficult emotions . Vulnerability can be difficult and doesn't always come naturally , but it can be an important part of healthy relationships . Basically , I love that .

Speaker 2 2:46

I think that's like , in a nutshell , um , when we speak of vulnerability or when we think about it . That's the core definition of it just being able to share and being able to be open , um with where we are in life , right and where we are and things and um and where we're not . That also too . Yes , exactly , you know , and I think like I was gonna ask what do you ? Why do you think people fear being vulnerable ? Why do you think it's such a hard thing to do ?

Speaker 1 3:17

well , I know for me , and I'm sure this is the case for a lot of people I didn't grow up seeing it right . I didn't grow up seeing people be vulnerable . I didn't grow up as it . I didn't grow up seeing people be vulnerable . I didn't grow up seeing adults talking about their mistakes .

Speaker 1 3:31

You know , you always hear that saying we don't air our dirty laundry if something's going on in the family and that might be specific to our culture , maybe that's just kind of how we were raised and how we were brought up , but I didn't see anyone in my family or even in , I would would say , friends , family , social circles . Forget , like you know , any work or professional setting . Oh gosh , there's no room for that over in our work . So I'm just thinking like , even in the media , like , especially like men specifically you're portrayed to be strong and you know there's no room for like .

Speaker 1 4:07

okay , if you made a mistake or you keep that to yourself , or you're shunned or nobody needs to know or yeah , because I think you're going to be deemed like I don't know , like a bad person or judged differently , yeah or people judge you .

Speaker 2 4:19

You know , it's always that thing of I always think back to oh no , we don't . What happens is this house stays in this house . You know , like let's not , like you don't like , let's not show like our true selves or where we are you know what I mean to other people right , you know , and um , in a way it I think the original intention of not being vulnerable is to protect ourselves and to not put ourselves in a position to be judged or criticized right and so maybe the of the intention is the intention of it may not be like a bad thing , because you know you do want to at some point protect , but then it shouldn't .

Speaker 2 5:01

But it shouldn't be so rigid . There needs to be boundaries within that right like , maybe you don't tell everyone your dirty laundry , maybe you just tell those trusted people that are around you know what I mean and and it's you to decide what , how that looks like for you . But I feel like when you are just closed off completely , you don't even you , you don't allow for any kind of um , you know , uh , what's the word like collectivism or a way that we can relate to things ? You don't allow for any of that to come into your life . You know , I think it can also be isolating . No , it can be .

Speaker 1 5:35

yes , because if you're kind of we talked about this if you're going through something or suffering in silence with something when there could be someone just next door , or what ?

Speaker 2 5:43

have you a phone call away who's ?

Speaker 1 5:45

been through something similar who can ? Help walk you through it . Yeah , you know , I agree .

Speaker 2 5:49

I agree , I think also we , because if we're going to talk about generational , I think that you know , because , like you know , we're millennials . Those that before us are boomers or Gen X , right , and maybe they , we were raised by boomers yes .

Speaker 2 6:01

Yeah , and we were raised by baby boomers , and so I don't think maybe that was something that they were accustomed to doing . You know , I think because there's , I think , if I'm not mistaken , it's the silent generation , then it's the boomers , then it's the ex , and so that like thought process has been passed down . Correct , we just suffer in silence , correct , and we don't need to speak , we don't ? You know something ? It needs to say so .

Speaker 1 6:26

I think everybody has their own problems , right ?

Speaker 2 6:29

so I don't want to be a burden , you know and all of these things you kind of like end up , uh , fighting excuses of not to be vulnerable , right , and then you're skirting around that , correct ?

Speaker 2 6:41

because , like you said , I didn't I didn't see modeled , you know , when I was growing up , and so I didn't even know that was a thing you know . And if it was , it was always oh , just don't you know , you don't want people to judge you . You want to keep up a certain type of a reputation that maybe it may be you don't want to have like people have a jaded view of you and maybe you care about what other people think . So just keep things to yourself and don't , you know , open up about things . But now that I realize it was more about protecting an image and what people thought of us than it was about actually , like you know , living your authentic self , correct , correct , correct .

Speaker 1 7:14

Especially with the mistakes thing . I feel I don't know about you , but I feel like growing up like making a mistake was like World War III .

Speaker 2 7:22

We don't make mistakes .

Speaker 1 7:23

We don't make mistakes . There's no grace ?

Speaker 2 7:25

There's no . You know what I mean ? Yeah , I think also because I just never . I never grew up in a house where I saw mistakes being made or like , or even maybe they were , but I wasn't aware of it . You know what I mean . So then now that puts in a kind of pressure , specifically in mine . Yeah , it then puts on a kind of a pressure where oh God forbid I can't even tell you if I make a mistake , right , you know because now if I do , oh my God , am I going to be judged , criticized ?

Speaker 2 7:49

I'm not ready for shamed , all of these things . So then it just keeps even your work close , you know more close . Also , I don't think a safe space was provided , you know , in order to even feel like I can even come and tell you anything , you know , and I don't think it's ever intentional to not be a salesperson . I just don't think , like I said , generations of conditioning people just don't know how to show up in that way because that's not what they saw modeled to them .

Speaker 2 8:16

And so I think of this where we are now in this generation , it's like okay , now that we know that , and I think in our millennial , the term of vulnerability has become more and more aware . There's more awareness around it now about be honest , of where you are , you never know who can relate to you , and that's what I found by me being vulnerable about certain things I'm like oh you too , oh , you're also struggling here .

Speaker 1 8:39

You're also doing that here . You bring it out on someone else , right you do . You make someone else more comfortable to share what they're going through .

Speaker 2 8:43

They realize they're not alone .

Speaker 1 8:45

Correct . It builds trust . It does you become close . Your relationships , I found , become closer , more intimate .

Speaker 2 8:52

Yeah .

Speaker 1 8:52

I also think , like back to your question , I feel like a lot of people aren't sharing because , like , just look at like social media and this whole cancel culture thing .

Speaker 2 9:00

I feel . Where is the empathy ? When did we ?

Speaker 1 9:03

lose empathy for other people .

Speaker 2 9:05

Yes , and compassion . When did we stop ? We want to crucify crucify , crucify and then no one's going to ever tell you anything , if they know you're going to be crucified .

Speaker 1 9:13

I was at a friend's house .

Speaker 2 9:16

Why do we think we're so perfect that we can crucify someone else ? We're so perfect , right ? We don't make mistakes .

Speaker 1 9:22

Even though we make mistakes , everybody else should , right ? I was at a friend's house a few weeks ago and they had this sign and I thought it was pretty cool because it said at this house , we believe in second chances . Oh , I love that In this house , we make mistakes . In this house we believe in saying I'm sorry . And I just thought that was such a cool sign your home to just like it takes the pressure off .

Speaker 2 9:43

That's what I said , right ? It just means , okay , I don't have to show up , perfect , I don't . There's no , there is no um expectation of me to be perfect or expectation of me to show up and you know , not make a mistake , or don't you dare embarrass me , or you know all of these things right , I messed up today ?

Speaker 2 9:59

yeah , no , because because in a way it's like I think it's in our humanist that we are going to make , but we're not perfect . We're not made perfect people . But I think sometimes this world can be so mean and aggressive that if you show up anything less than it's a problem , you know when that's not how it's supposed to be , you know , and again it makes people to not sharing and you know , caring about what other people think , because we're just not nice people . We're not . When people are trying to share , it just ends up being , you know , maybe thrown back at them . And then now they have a wallop because they don't ever trust anyone to tell anything again , because now you've abused their vulnerability .

Speaker 1 10:36

Because people usually aren't going to open up to you , but so many times it can feel like it's reciprocated Correct .

Speaker 2 10:41

Or if they don't feel safe . Maybe they did feel safe and now it's reciprocated right , correct , correct . Or if they don't feel safe , maybe they did feel safe and now it's like okay , now you're against me , now you're doing it .

Speaker 1 10:46

Okay , I'm not going to tell you what's going on , because I just don't feel like this is a safe place or like you , really , you know care to , even , you know help me or hear me out , you know even listen to me .

Speaker 2 10:59

You know Well , why do you think we ?

Speaker 1 11:01

do you know moment or something that they're going through ? Yeah , why would we then not throw it back in their face ?

Speaker 2 11:08

I think sometimes , like when it is thrown back in our face from the like , I want to talk about the , not the receiving end from the person who's doing the throwing it back in their face I don't think there's a maybe for that person . It's not a clear understanding of maybe A what's going on . B I don't think that they maybe have the tools of how to have empathy or compassion for the specific person . Maybe they have always maybe been criticized when they've shared , so they only know to do that to you , you know .

Speaker 1 11:35

Like they can't handle . I can't , this is too much . Yeah , right , right , right . You did . What now ? All these ?

Speaker 2 11:40

emotions Right , because maybe that's how they've been talked to when they've been vulnerable .

Speaker 1 11:44

so maybe we're just recapturing , projecting the same behavior was done to us um do you think sometimes we also don't understand , like especially this documentary , and this lady was like looking at she's like in her late 50s now , or late 40s I think , and she was looking back at her high school days and she saw like a lot of her friends , like it's a she's a celebrity , grew up in hollywood and she saw how over the years , a lot of her friends committed suicide and she was like I just remember , like some of my friends back then when we were teenagers or young adults , they used to call me and they used to want to come over I didn't realize , like that

Understanding and Embracing Vulnerability

Speaker 1 12:17

was a cry for help .

Speaker 2 12:17

But sometimes people are reaching out , yeah .

Speaker 1 12:19

So we don't realize and we don't realize it's just like hey can , hey can I come over . Yeah , yeah , yeah , but maybe , if I keep , calling you three four , five times a week maybe that's my way of reaching out . So do you think ? Maybe sometimes we don't realize the seriousness in what somebody's trying to tell us , so that's why we can kind of be like , oh , this is not a big deal .

Speaker 2 12:36

Yeah , I think sometimes we maybe don't know how important it is , but like you be aware of , like this person never tells me , or this person is , you know , maybe a closed book all the time and then now they're being open about something . I think I need to be more careful of listening closely and being more open and not judging and coming with like a compassionate ear . Again , I think people are not looking to us to fix their problems , they're just looking to us to hear them and to listen to them .

Speaker 1 13:06

We tend to feel like we have to fix .

Speaker 2 13:07

So maybe , like you said , it could feel like a burden and too much . No , don't tell me I don't know what to do with it I'm supposed to help you because our , our , maybe our our innate reaction is to fix and be the fixer . I'm like what can I do to help you ? Because that's how we're conditioned .

Speaker 1 13:21

I know I'm conditioned to fix it where it's like oh my god , like , yeah , you , okay , maybe I'm just supposed to listen and pray for you .

Speaker 2 13:25

Maybe it's not it's not for me to do anything but to listen to you , you know , and sometimes some people just need to vent it out and just need a listening ear . After that they feel better , you know .

Speaker 1 13:33

Yeah , but if they don't ever have a space to do that , then you internalize , internalize , internalize and now we know what happens when you do that , though it still comes out , but then it now comes out in unhealthy ways and then you're suffering in silence .

Speaker 2 13:46

You know um . It's . Yeah , you know . So what do you think are um like ? What do you think like ? It looks like like vulnerability , looks like like what are some examples of it ?

Speaker 1 13:58

I think it looks like you know I was talking about about a sick co-worker . I think we talked about this a little earlier , about a co-worker that is sick and having now to ask for help whether that be . Now you're physically sick and can't maybe work as many hours as you could , so now maybe that's starting to affect you financially . So maybe being vulnerable and like now asking people yeah , like flat out asking for money , right we know the health care system in this country .

Speaker 1 14:32

Right , we know the cost of right of treatment , and especially if you're not working because you need to be home and you know , heal and get better . You need to go to doctor's appointments or hospitals . I think that's probably one of the biggest ways to be vulnerable is just to be like hey , you know , I'm physically not okay and I don't know how I'm going to make ends meet this month , and these are my closest family or friends . Maybe you've been working at that company for years , or ?

Speaker 2 14:58

you've known these coworkers , why not ?

Speaker 1 15:00

start with them or go to them and kind of share that you've been going through a tough time . They know that the kind of worker in my instance this co-worker is a great employee but , just you know , money started to become an issue for her . So just having , I would say , being vulnerable is having that courage to just flat out . Ask , yes , and bravery yes . Yeah , you're going to have to be brave , because now it's like a matter of life or death . I can't be too prideful to ask for help .

Speaker 1 15:31

So I think that would probably be To humble yourself and be able to ask for the help that needed .

Speaker 2 15:34

So I think humbleness and vulnerability kind of go together .

Speaker 1 15:38

They do .

Speaker 2 15:39

Where you in order to be vulnerable .

Speaker 1 15:41

There's no space for ego in vulnerability , right ? No ?

Speaker 2 15:43

my God , no , no , there is no space . I agree with you on that . I think you know one of the main things . I think you know , as another example has been , even like going to therapy , like that you have to be vulnerable . You're not vulnerable Like you don't get anywhere . You have to be open to like where you are in life , the mistakes you've made , and and to share you know . Pretty much everything , everything , and maybe some things that you maybe won't share with a friend .

Speaker 1 16:08

With your own family or friends . Correct exactly .

Speaker 2 16:10

And I think that's in and of itself its own different kind of vulnerability and to also know that those sessions are a safe space to have it .

Speaker 1 16:18

Because this is essentially a stranger .

Speaker 2 16:23

You're kind of telling all I would say right with that person and a level of like . You're not going to take it and throw it back at me .

Speaker 1 16:29

And make me feel like crap because I did X , Y , Z .

Speaker 2 16:32

Correct and I think they are trained and conditioned not to do that and not to be judgmental , because you know people bring a lot of things . I know , I can only imagine you did what .

Navigating Vulnerability in Relationships

Speaker 2 16:44

If you're able to be vulnerable there , then it makes it a little bit easier to be vulnerable to maybe your trusted people and the people that you deem worthy to share things .

Speaker 1 16:51

So you kind of have to like start somewhere , you have to start somewhere , I think you do . Once you take that first step , you think it kind of makes it a little bit harder .

Speaker 2 16:57

I think it has to be like a muscle , like you don't just go all the way and got to start slowly , and then now it would be like , well , you know what , it's not so bad . You know , um , it's being able to be , you know , reciprocated and I'm being able to . You know , um , say what I need and also know that I'm I'm not alone and maybe what I'm going for . Things are happening and we even talked about , like this podcast being a love of vulnerability and sharing and having so much stuff out in the world and letting it live um on audio right .

Speaker 1 17:25

Yeah , on audio right that can be out there , correct you ?

Speaker 2 17:28

know and and we'd not have to talk about things we've been through and things we've gone through and what we've had to overcome and where we struggle and the mistakes we've made and what we thought we still have left to do right a lot of things .

Speaker 2 17:39

And , you know , I think I would have to maybe also credit , like the fact we're able to do this is because of that we want , like we talk about . We both have been to therapy and I think that in itself has given us courage and bravery , like if we can share there and we can accept where we are , it gives us way more leverage and who we are . It gives us more leverage to now share it out to the world and hopefully it can also then um impact people and give them permission to also be vulnerable in their journey and what they're going through . Um , because you know , I think , how how can we go through this and learn so much and not share it with the world ? And that's a level of being vulnerable as well , because , like you said , this is we're sharing our lives where we are and our opinions and it does not our experiences .

Speaker 1 18:20

Yeah , so you're . Oh , I think anytime you do that you open up yourself to like criticism , you do and judgmental which some have come you know the good and the bad um , which is okay , but I think it's a part of life to go through that .

Speaker 2 18:32

And then also what it does . It's a muscle that is there that you can . Okay , if we are seeing negative criticism or feedback , how do we navigate that ? How do we problem solve that ? I think it's also you know , because if we're never we're open enough to do this like what we weren't , we're not gonna gain everything . We're not gonna gain anything . You know , yeah , you know , and so like , just be in here and here like correct yeah correct , you know , and if you're not able to even open up like , yeah , are you ?

Speaker 2 19:00

is there a risk in being attacked and being judged absolutely ? But sometimes the risk is worth the gain , right , you know of , like , actually , the outcome of it . I'm like , okay , I've learned this , I've learned that , you know this , you know . I just think if you've never risked anything , you just don't know , you don't gain anything . You don't gain anything you know , and I think we just have to be able to , like you said , be brave about it .

Speaker 1 19:22

Yeah , it's almost brave is the word because you're letting go of a sense of fear , I think , because I know for me , like sometimes , especially with the podcast , it's like okay , my parents are going to hear this Because you know our parents listen to the podcast . Make sure I don't say anything about them . Or you know our siblings , or you know my husband , my friends .

Speaker 2 19:44

Yeah , when I hear this , we're running under the bus , right , you know like we're trying to finesse and say things in a , you know , in a PC . You should have used aliases , yeah right , you should have used a real name Right In a PC kind of way . But also , it's also our truth and what we've gone through , and I think it's okay to say that . You know that and that's a level of also being vulnerable that you know .

Speaker 1 20:01

This is what we've lived , and this is what it was , and blaming anyone but you know , this is my experience .

Speaker 2 20:06

This is my experience and it's true exactly , and I really a hundred times that a lot of people can relate to it . You know of what we say and what we share and how we can also relate to other people who podcast and share whatever it may be , and so Now I feel like listening .

Speaker 1 20:21

I listen to so many . We talk about all the podcasts we listen to because of this podcast . I listen to other podcasts Because I feel like sometimes you feel like oh , there's so many other , we talked about this . There's so many podcasts out there .

Speaker 2 20:33

You don't want to feel rejected .

Speaker 1 20:35

Why would they listen to ours versus all the millions of ones that are out there ? But it's still like . We still want to share our outlook and our perception on things and what we're going through , what we're struggling with Right , I feel like it's almost healing to the podcast .

Speaker 2 20:53

Yes , For me it's been therapeutic , Absolutely very therapeutic .

Speaker 1 20:56

I look forward to it . I've learned so much talking to you that I'm like dang , I didn't even think of it that way , correct so many aha moments .

Speaker 2 21:02

Correct , yes , and vice versa . I don't think would have come . No , no , no . Even I think I remember telling you this on the first night . I think it's gonna help us more than it's gonna help the people that are out there and like by proxy . It's gonna help other people , but I think this is of our journey and even just speaking it out , and because when you're put it out into the universe .

Speaker 1 21:25

You know , sometimes when you we're scared of putting at least me , I'm scared of putting something out there because once it's out there , you cannot undo it unsaid and take it back .

Speaker 2 21:33

Yes , yes , once it's done , it's done and letting it live and being okay , and it often comes a lot of anxiety . I think that's what it was like . It was a lot of anxiety starting this thing and now we can jump on this thing and be like whatever . So it's a muscle right where we were before . It's a muscle right when we were before is not where we are , and we've grown so much , you know , and so I think , like it's now .

Speaker 1 21:51

And continue to grow daily baby and continue to grow .

Speaker 2 21:53

And just know that we're not perfect . People Like no .

Speaker 1 21:55

We're flawed people . We're flawed people . Yeah , you know , I think , if anything this made me realize , I told you .

Speaker 2 22:02

But me and Bona was like because we'll sit here and be like oh , we thought we've got to the top of the mountain . No , we have not , we've barely even got to the ledge . Just so , monica , that I think .

Speaker 1 22:15

I need to find a new therapist .

Speaker 2 22:16

Yeah .

Speaker 1 22:17

Because I feel like I'm in a transition part of my life and a lot of it has come from a lot of repressed , like childhood . I don't want to say childhood trauma , but I feel like I have to do a lot of inner childhood conditioning because it's now like showing up in my adult life .

Speaker 1 22:34

It probably has been but I'm just starting to recognize it now like a lot of patterns unhealthy behaviors all stem from , you know , when I was a child , and I'm realizing how I learned them and this is what started . And we talk about the people pleasing the validation the perfectionism . So that's like kind of what's going to be my focus . Um , now that we are finishing up season two , I think that's kind of where I'm . I keep getting this .

Speaker 2 22:58

Yeah , it's like this getting your child and getting your child . What is happening ? What's going on ?

Speaker 1 23:05

no , I hear you for sure , and I don't think I would have gotten there if it wasn't for this podcast yeah , to even recognize that ?

Speaker 2 23:09

no , I don't think so , yeah , I don't think so I think we're able to , I know right . I think we're able to see , like , what we , like you said , what we need to work on , where we are with things like okay , what else , what's another layer ? We need to unravel , another part of healing and , um , I think it's , it's like an onion it is , it is , it is , it is , it's .

Speaker 1 23:27

It's like an onion . It is , it is , it is , it is .

Speaker 2 23:30

It's always something else that needs to come . You know , from even doing these episodes too . You know , like I'm being 100% honest .

Breaking Down Walls

Speaker 2 23:38

I struggle with vulnerability . It's not something I've learned , and I honestly think doing this podcast has been able to soften it up a little bit for me you know , like in different areas , you know I ain't 100% there all the way .

Speaker 2 23:50

But I think , in like certain areas and certain things that you know maybe I wouldn't have done in the past , I'm able to like be , you know , forward and say it and be brave and just go , and you know this is how I'm feeling , this is what it is , and even like in my workspace and my personal life , you know all of these things where I'm to talk , I'm learning of the points of like I have to speak up , like that's been my focus these past couple of months .

Speaker 2 24:11

I speaking up for myself , what I believe , what I think , what are my opinions , because that's a level of being vulnerable even at my work . So that's been my challenge , like internally and I don't know if I've even said this to anyone like just like even praying , like Lord , help me to speak up , help me to be vulnerable , because you have a lot to say .

Speaker 1 24:27

It's correct .

Speaker 2 24:28

Yes , help me speak up . Help me not be , because I think , like a past version of myself . I would be like I have a woman that said you know what , it's not going to matter , or yeah , you know I would kind of dismiss it like it's not , like they don't want to hear what they're going to do with that .

Speaker 2 24:39

But I'm challenging myself in this area of like to just speak up about what it is , of course , if it's the right place and the right time to do it , you know , and I think I don't think I would have gotten there if we have not maybe have done this and actually accepting where I am in this , you would have eventually , I would have , I think I would have eventually . But I think , where I'm at now , if we had not done this because , like I said , this is a level of vulnerability . We're here and this is where I'm at and this is what it is I think I'm just way more accepting and also , like I said , going to the therapy , going to going to therapy and accepting that has made us more able to be vulnerable and it , you know , and , um , uh , what is the word ? Like , carry on and recognize where we stand with things . You know , I agree . You know when we stand with things . You know , I agree . What do you think are like the consequences of not being vulnerable Like this is ?

Speaker 1 25:30

more of like a dis . We talked about like isolation a little bit right .

Speaker 2 25:34

Yes , yes .

Speaker 1 25:38

Those walls ? We talk about walls a lot y'all .

Speaker 2 25:41

Because you're trying to protect yourself , right ?

Speaker 1 25:42

Yes , You're trying to make sure like nothing comes in and kind of penetrates that wall , yeah , but not realizing that also you cannot get out either .

Speaker 2 25:52

People are not going to see you because you're not sharing that wall , kind of goes both ways .

Speaker 1 25:56

Right , and I think , like I think , realizing how many people have put up walls .

Speaker 2 26:01

Yeah .

Speaker 1 26:02

In life , how many walls I was putting up to protect myself . Yeah , that was blocking a lot of positive energy , negative energy too . A lot of positive energy couldn't come in a lot of love . I think sometimes I would also feel trapped because of that , the anxiety we talk about , the stress , the worry .

Speaker 2 26:26

I think also like building intimacy with people , like even in a friendship or relationship , marriage , whatever , like . I think that's also a thing that can come by not being vulnerable , not being able to really build the closeness with someone , yeah , like how deep can you get ?

Speaker 1 26:39

You can't really . You stay surface level .

Speaker 2 26:48

Yes , you stay surface level . We talk about that surface struggle , what we're doing . You know what I mean , and so I think like that . I think often , now that I'm thinking about it , I'm correlating . Oftentimes we don't want to acknowledge that because we already feel a type of way about ourselves . So now , even being vulnerable about it or where we are with things we we feel like now I have to like acknowledge and now it's kind of like now , like you're aware , you have to like do the work and I think someone's maybe it's almost like a mirror yeah , and we don't want to do the work , to having to be , to change or be better in this certain area people always keep that distance .

Speaker 1 27:23

You know some people who are very distant . You can feel that's very intentional , like they want that , yeah , it's there yeah , like don't .

Speaker 2 27:31

Yeah , I'm good , right here we don't have to go too much , we don't have to go too deep .

Speaker 1 27:35

We don't have to I don't have to say everything .

Speaker 2 27:37

You know , we just keep right , but , like you said , honestly , but where's the benefit in that if we're just staying surface level ? Where's the real benefit ? You know what I mean and don't get me wrong . There's some people that you do need to stay surface level because they're just not a safe space , and please don't you know but then there's some areas where it's like , how deep , like you said , how deep can we get then ?

Speaker 2 27:54

are we really , uh uh , cultivating an authentic friendship ? Are really cultivating authentic relationship , if we're not being able to get to that level ?

Speaker 1 28:02

you know far you're gonna get with those people . You know there's only so far you're gonna get . It's just it's it's not gonna go as far as you need it to be now and it's . It's sad that that's how some people choose to live . Yeah , it's , it's even like I know , for , like in a past season , I found myself like trying to find multiple distractions , like mmm you know , like those people who are like workaholics . Yeah , that's like a form of you know like those people who are like workaholics .

Speaker 2 28:29

I'm just wondering if that's like a form of you know talking about that girl , yeah , who likes to work , yeah , and being busy , yeah sometimes that busyness .

Speaker 1 28:35

I wonder if that's a way to avoid avoid having people , people getting close to you , right , because now you're like , or even to like even face your feelings right and facing your feelings or facing where you are facing , where what's emotional state ?

Speaker 2 28:48

you're in right now , yeah yeah , because you don't have to .

Accepting Imperfections, Embracing Self-Love

Speaker 2 28:52

We're we were never taught how to sit with our emotions and our feelings . We're just talking earlier about grief and how we have to grieve things , and we were never taught how to grieve things and sit with it you know , and that thing , that's the space of being vulnerable , right , like to just yeah hamster will just move on to the next thing , and I think it .

Speaker 2 29:06

You know , if we're not able to do that like it , we just end up sugarcoating it or putting a band-aid on things , then going through life and it's not you know it's not a healthy way to live .

Speaker 1 29:15

You don't want to be there . That's what catches up to you . It does it , really does that's what I'm learning .

Speaker 2 29:20

It does you know , and even like I think also there is a difference of like women . I think women tend to be more vulnerable than men . There is a difference of like women be I think women tend to be more vulnerable than men . Why is that ? I think it's a society that's created of like .

Speaker 2 29:32

Men are supposed to be the head , and they have a lot of weight and pressure and maybe they don't want to admit when they're not able to , you know , meet those expectations . Or they're not okay , or they're having a moment , yeah , yeah , or maybe like another thing , like we said earlier , like maybe it's because , like they maybe have tried to be vulnerable and it's been thrown back in their face like you know what , I'm good , we don't need to even go down that rabbit hole you know , but then why stop at one ?

Speaker 1 29:56

yeah , not everyone is .

Speaker 2 29:58

You know not everyone is going to be throwing it back at your face . You know I'm . I know not everyone is a safe space , so then don't put a blanket statement and just write everyone off . And now you're on protection mode and wall up and next no , no , no , you're , you're , you're hurting yourself you know it is it is , you're sabotaging yourself in the long run .

Speaker 2 30:17

You know , I think we should give people a chance if they abuse the . Abuse it , yes , you know . But , um , you know , don't just write it off , you know . And so I think it's rough out here . I mean , I get why we're not able to do it . It's just it's we , it's a tough crowd out here , you know like , and it's not something that we were taught to do , you know I'm reading some other examples of vulnerability and it's saying taking chances that might lead to rejection .

Speaker 1 30:47

Oh , oh , how many of us are comfortable in that . Yeah , I think that was like my last position at work . I think I took a really big chance in like working from home and starting a new company , and being part of a large team , things I'd never done before . That was scary . Yeah , I don't know if I would have been able to do that like five or ten years ago , yeah , yeah . Another one is talking about mistakes you have made , sharing personal details that you normally keep private .

Speaker 1 31:12

Right , talk about that with our upbringing Right , Feeling difficult emotions such as shame grief or fear . I love that Feeling is the thing to do . What about this one ? This is a good one . Reconnected with someone you have fallen out with , that could be a little bit more , a little bit of a deal , because you don't know what they're going to say that's true , you are really just out here risking it , like you know what I said that call and being honest about what you need in a relationship , including your boundaries and expectations . That is also being vulnerable .

Speaker 2 31:43

Yes , I guess .

Speaker 1 31:44

I didn't realize that .

Speaker 2 31:45

Even sharing , like , where you are with things . Yeah , yeah , you know that could be definitely something to consider right , and I think at the root of it .

Speaker 1 31:54

It all comes to knowing yourself and being .

Speaker 2 31:56

Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 31:58

Accepting of yourself and comfortable with yourself .

Speaker 2 32:00

You know that's what it is , Because it's like even you know , like , how do we even become vulnerable ? And like we , I think we stated about , like you know , going to therapy is how to become vulnerable , knowing ourselves , knowing where we're at . I think that in itself is the foundation that's necessary to that's it cultivate , you know , that kind of a mindset of being vulnerable , you know , and just knowing you're not perfect no one is we all fall short , it's okay , you know . And accepting it there , I think , like we've talked about this , we had a perfectionism episode , like maybe last season , like you remember , maybe once , and even just me , me , I'm learning .

Speaker 2 32:32

The conditioning of perfectionism has been a struggle because I see how life is like dang it , because my mindset is like well , if I get , if I get everything done , then it's perfect .

Speaker 1 32:43

You know I'm good yeah how do we ?

Speaker 2 32:46

you know what I mean . Like just breaking that down has been a constant struggle for me . And like , just um , you don't have , like we , like yes , like I'm not saying don't work hard and do what you have , but you don't . It's like we're not looking for like 100 . Maybe if today all you could do is 80 , then it's 80 , if it's 90 , then it's 90 , if it's 50 and 50 , because every day is something different it's gonna be different , but it was that like um comparing yourself to a different .

Speaker 1 33:10

Yes , well , on tuesday I gave a hundred percent correct 80 correct .

Speaker 2 33:15

Something is wrong , like you know that that's a constant internal battle correct , but just yeah constantly loving yourself and yeah , yeah , and who you are , flaws and all , and we're all imperfect people . And I think like , because I remember , even like our I don't want to say our mission , but maybe our catalyst was like we're imperfect people living in an imperfect world and just learning how to do that , we keep making mistakes right .

Speaker 2 33:36

Yes , we keep making mistakes , we're learning , we're evolving , we're growing , we're pivoting , we're shifting and I think just state , um , you know , and that's going to be a lifelong journey , you know just , you know , learning how to embrace , like where we are in life .

Speaker 1 33:50

I think to me that's going to be the longest lifelong journey . Right the self-love thing , because I think we see our imperfections on ourselves more than anyone else I know for me , I can be my biggest like critic in my head so if I'm critiquing myself , and then I want to tell monica yeah I this , I've already been beating myself up , right , correct . So now , in my mind , if I tell you , then you're going to , you know , be beating me up too .

Speaker 2 34:12

So it's like ugh and it's like what we talked about earlier , about seeing ourselves in the context of , like the holistic , the whole , you not just like the parts of us right , like , who are we as the whole human ?

Speaker 2 34:24

right , you know that we're not . You know we're not identified by , oh , you made this mistake or that mistake . It's like your identity , right , who . You know who you are Like when you think about your whole story . I think it makes you , can make you want to , like you , love yourself more and appreciate and accept yourself more , because you're in totality . You are a flawed human . You're not . You know you're not . You know you're not always gonna get it right . You're not always gonna , you know you know , get things right . Because I know we talk about like , going back , like , oh , I wish I didn't do that in the past . Oh , I wish I knew this . I wish I didn't , wish I knew now what I did . You know what I mean , all of those things and we just have to learn to accept that we are just where we are now , you know and has , in the context of everything , and I think we're exactly where we're supposed to be . You know , I think that's what's hard for me like oh my god , just go back and change xyz .

Speaker 1 35:08

Yeah , if I had a time I should my therapist always just say Sarah , there's no crystal ball , no , there's no way to even see what that outcome would have been . We don't know . In the future , like , let it go , be like .

Speaker 2 35:19

Ellen , let it go , let's move on like easier said than done . But you know what I think ? That's where the grief thing comes in Be able to grieve that . You're just not going to know what the outcome would have been if you would have chose something different . It's just not the way life is wired to be , and we can't be a slave to our past . We've got to pick it up and move on .

Speaker 1 35:40

You know that's a tough one and lean on each other , because I find , the more I realize that you know , everyone is just really out there , out here , trying their best . Yeah , doing their best .

Speaker 2 35:51

We're on the same boat . Most people don't want to hurt people . They just worry about themselves . Really , yes , yes , a lot of people are really good people out here . They wish you well .

Speaker 1 35:58

They don't want to harm you .

Speaker 2 35:59

Yeah .

Speaker 1 35:59

It's the more that we can just really . You have that empathy and I know it's awkward to like , try to be like vulnerable and say my gosh yeah , I don't want to wear this , should I ? How do I look in this ? Yeah , yeah , feeling like you know not your best self and to ask someone that I yeah , I know it's hard to like , kind of share those insecurities , yeah , yeah with people , it's not easy , but yeah , I mean we're all going through similar things we are and , like we said , it's like a muscle .

Speaker 2 36:24

The more I think , the more you slowly do , the more you're able to massage them and then it won't feel awkward as much I know .

Speaker 1 36:29

For me , like the first time it was like trying to have those deep conversations . My parents were like this is so yeah , yeah . I think after a while it doesn't become awkward . Yeah , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2 36:38

Like how do we say yeah , it is , you know , same here I've had those when I'm like , okay , it's all horrible , let me just go ahead and just say this , and I think it's opened up the door of like now , them wanting and able to be vulnerable and say , well , this is why I was sad and whatever . And so we sometimes give other people the permission and the encouragement they need to also , you know , open up the door and you know , let the floodgates open and be like you know it's okay , so say it's like I'm not going to judge you to you know , lead with empathy and compassion exactly .

Speaker 2 37:05

I've been through this too , I know what you're feeling , exactly , exactly , and that's what , especially , that's in the reassurance that you know that you need you know in that , so you know , um , and also just remember that you're important , you know we're so blessed to have this life and live it and that we're all just trying our best . You know what I mean . There's no , like you said , we can our most critic , putting a lot of pressure on ourselves and also living one day at a time . I think sometimes we look so much into the future we can be like , oh my God , I'm not where I used to be .

Speaker 2 37:35

I'm not where I'm , you know , da-da-da . And I think that's also vulnerable too , saying exactly where you are . Like I wish I was this by this age . This age I'm 35 . I thought I would have kids by now and you know have a place , all of these things .

Speaker 2 37:48

This is not what life is right now , and that's okay too . You know , I think sometimes life is not going to go how we planned , and that's fine , but also know that there's a bigger plan that's even better than probably what you even imagined . So I think that's something to keep in mind , you know .

Speaker 1 38:10

But it takes a little ability to even say that you know .

Speaker 2 38:11

And does it grieve me ? Yeah , cuz you wish , yeah , but you know , but it's also . But I think to do other two things can be true . Yeah , I'm kind of like dang , I wish , but also I get like there's also something greater ahead . So you know exactly exactly it was a good combo .

Speaker 1 38:25

I know it really was .

Speaker 2 38:27

I can't believe .

Speaker 1 38:27

The season is over already but we'll be back because the way life is like the way time flies listen . I can't believe how fast it is .

Speaker 2 38:38

Summer is here , people it is you guys have a great summer , enjoy frolic . Be you live your best life be your authentic self .

Speaker 1 38:46

be there for people , be a listening be you live your best life . Yes , be your authentic self . Be there for people . Yeah , Be a listening ear . Be kind .

Speaker 2 38:51

Yeah , we're just saying all of these like do , do , do , do , do .

Speaker 1 38:53

No , seriously A lot of people are caring . A lot is what I realized .

Speaker 2 38:57

Correct Heavy burdens yeah .

Speaker 1 38:58

Very heavy and they're not sharing . So I would encourage people to maybe find one or two people that they really trust or feel comfortable with and , you know , start opening up and sharing more and see how therapeutic and helpful it will be . And if that person isn't there , then you know . I always say therapy , psychology today .

Speaker 2 39:16

There we go . Find two therapists in your area . Yeah , you never know what truly can come out of doing that , you know , and the beauty of it , and where you may be even just in the scheme of doing that , you know , and the beauty of it , and where you may be even just in the scheme of a month .

Speaker 1 39:33

You know , and you know it will be life changing . It will be , I truly believe it will be .

Speaker 2 39:35

Keep fighting the good fight y'all you know on this journey together . Keep praying for us , yes as we pray for you guys . Yes , definitely . Y'all . Have a good one . See you next season . Bye , bye .