Dismantling Doubt & Celebrating True Effort

Ever wrestle with the sneaky suspicion that you're not quite as competent as people think you are, despite all evidence to the contrary? Well, buckle up, because Serah and I are about to take you on a deep exploration of the imposter syndrome landscape. Together, we unravel the contradiction between external success and internal self-perception, dissecting why so many of us feel undeserving of our accomplishments. 

Throughout our candid conversation, we shine a light on the challenges we face in acknowledging our own merit and dissect how this psychological phenomenon permeates various aspects of our lives, from professional careers to academic achievements. From celebrating the small wins to building unshakable self-belief, we guide you toward a path of authentic self-recognition and growth.

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Transcript

Understanding Imposter Syndrome

Speaker 1 0:18

Hello , hello hello , welcome back y'all , we're back .

Speaker 2 0:25

And I'm Sarah .

Speaker 1 0:30

And we're here , I'm back . So today we're just going to jump right in . We're talking about imposter syndrome . This is a subject that I don't think we knew to the degree of how much suffering we have of this Right , and so I think it's something that we really want to like , maybe dissect more and you know , just you know , share about it . So what is it Right ? What is it so ? According to I don't even know what we got this definition from Google , google Imposter syndrome is a condition of feeling anxious and not experiencing success internally , despite being high performing in external , objective ways .

Speaker 1 1:20

So I'm , I'm if I'm going to paraphrase it is basically , it's basically feeling like . I want to say the insta-justified . That means like maybe how you look on the outside is not necessarily what you're feeling on the inside , and so something can look like you're , you know , you're high ambitious , you're high achieving or high performing , but in the inside you're not really necessarily feeling that . We're feeling like maybe you're being a fraud or a failure , like you really are not . You're like in the adequate right , correct , correct and I phony you know like you're doubting like is that ?

Speaker 1 1:54

am I really doing that good or am I really being the best ? You know , even though others may say or your actions may show that ?

Speaker 2 2:03

So it's also like a big one is like you hear people talking about like I feel like a fraud , whether it's . I think it's , you see it a lot in like people's professional life , right , correct . Like I feel like how did I get this position ? I'm not earning up this title Promotion , I don't belong here and eventually people are going to find me out , right , because you don't believe it . You feel like other people don't believe it and they don't see that in you , right ?

Speaker 1 2:28

I want to say , like I think you are convinced that that's not who you are , and so when something happens to combat that and someone maybe is saying , oh , you got a promotion or you are , you know , you did really good . And so when you get an award , it's so hard to accept or even celebrate .

Speaker 2 2:49

Like , celebrate and enjoy it , share with other people . Correct , because that's not necessarily how you think of yourself , right ?

Speaker 1 2:54

Exactly , exactly , you know , and you know some general examples . I want to say like would be , you know , maybe going to college and you're getting , you get a degree and then you're wondering like , how did I get this degree ? You're not really understanding like you worked hard and maybe you felt like you did you studied for hours .

Speaker 2 3:15

You studied for hours .

Speaker 1 3:17

And maybe , and maybe I want to say it was half ass , but maybe it wasn't you you did , oh , you didn't give it your all .

Speaker 2 3:23

Maybe you didn't give it your price . You still got a degree .

Speaker 1 3:26

So you're like wait , I might even deserving of this degree because maybe I didn't do as much as I should have . But maybe you and maybe that's your thought process but maybe you did . You did what you could do and it was enough Every day and it was enough and it wasn't perfect . It maybe was one day you gave 30% , one day you gave 50% and maybe one class you you ate . So one class you got like a B or a C in , but does that mean that you're not worthy of the degree or that you didn't , you weren't giving your best ?

Speaker 2 3:54

shot Didn't work for this degree , right ? I think a lot of things like you hear about in process syndrome is like we think we got here by luck , right ? So you're talking about college . I would even go so like far back as to getting into that school , right ? Maybe you applied to a lot of different schools and you're like I I won't apply to Yale but I don't think I'm going to get in .

Speaker 1 4:14

But let me just apply to them .

Speaker 2 4:15

Maybe you get it and you're like oh my gosh , how did they ? Why do they pick right , right , Right . So it starts from there , Right ? And then you start taking the classes and then because you're thinking like maybe , yale , it's not for me , it's for those other people . People like me , don't go to schools like that .

Speaker 1 4:31

Right .

Speaker 2 4:32

And , like you said , you do ace that test and a lot of it is like people being like they got lucky . They lucked into the school , they lucked into this position , they lucked into this class and into into this degree , this grade , right . But I mean , like , who has like that much luck that you have ?

Speaker 1 4:47

you know you obviously had to do something right to get into that , Right , so it is your hard work . I do believe it is . It's that it's um , knowing that you had to perform in a certain way to get that degree , because I don't think we're all just going through sitting down , Right . So then why are we not able to believe that we actually obtained such a high high regarding like a degree , um , even though you ?

Speaker 2 5:12

know , like , like , like , even though the number speak for this right Exactly .

Speaker 1 5:18

Even if we're not feeling that way . You know , I think it's , it's , it's . I think it can be hard because it's how you view yourself and I think comes out to like your self-worth and how you view yourself and , uh , what you attain and what your strengths are , your skills are , that can , um , easily sway you into one way or another of how you think about yourself . And so that's what have you question , like is am I even worthy of this ? Is this ?

Speaker 2 5:43

Like no , no , no , no , no , that's it .

Speaker 1 5:45

Yeah , I really , I really do the work because your mindset is so focused on you , not um fulfilling and right deserving of it that when you are , I think it's hard to even see in which ways you were deserving of it , because your , your your mind is penetrating to more of the negative than if the positive . Like you're focusing on the ways that you weren't . Like I didn't , maybe I didn't even turn on my stuff on time , I didn't . Maybe I didn't really do a lot of research for that paper I don't . I don't think I really studied that hard for that test versus what if you on the back and what if you really did , or what if you maybe ? Okay , maybe you didn't spend three days , but you spent a day . That's something right . Or maybe you didn't , maybe you didn't research for five hours , which is for two hours . That's still something , yeah . So we tend to focus more so on what we didn't do , then what was done , and then therefore , it has a questioning Like was it enough ?

Speaker 2 6:35

Was it even enough ? Am I enough ?

Speaker 1 6:37

And maybe it was enough for that day . But I think we have a certain goal that we wanted to be perfect that if , if I didn't struggle enough , if I didn't you know , if I didn't , if I didn't sleep , then I I worked hard enough to obtain the degree , like this thing came too easily . It came too easily where it's like . But what if you just you just did what you were ?

Speaker 2 6:54

supposed to do , and maybe this is a like you're strong in this area of the subject , right Cause I feel like some things for some people come easy right . Like some things , you do have to work hard . Like some people are national born athletes and and , and you know they don't have to spend hours and hours in the gym , or you know , like I was like what's up , curry , shout out .

Speaker 2 7:13

Shoot those three pointers , like nobody else , but maybe he doesn't have to spend a lot of time practicing those three pointers , but other players , they doesn't come naturally for them and maybe they have to spend a couple more hours on the court than he does . What if ? Maybe for you , that's , you know you're just generally skilled in that area , like instead of like , doubting right Like where do you think that imposter syndrome even comes from All that doubt ?

Speaker 1 7:39

I think it can stem from a lot of areas .

Speaker 1 7:41

I think childhood is probably favorite place for all the things come from , you know , not feeling validated or worthy enough , and so then you carry that into adulthood and you even wonder , like how did I even , how did I even graduate high school ? You know what I mean . Like all of these questions that come and you know and you can criticize as a child yeah , to be criticized as a child , I think many various areas . You could do that . And then you realize wait , you know , I'm thinking this way because of what you've experienced growing up .

Speaker 2 8:12

You're upbringing right , I think also like because we have siblings , like we always talk about being compared right . Correct . I think when you grow up being compared to your sibling , then you start comparing yourself to the world , to your coworkers to your friends , to those people out there right . Because you're like you know , monica does have a master's degree and I only have my high school diploma or my GED or my you know . So it's like , okay , she has it . It means it can be achieved . If I don't have it , then maybe .

Speaker 2 8:41

I'm not good at it . I think it's like we have to really be careful when talking to little ones .

Speaker 1 8:48

I agree Trying not to compare siblings , I agree , because I do believe that can be a trigger for imposter syndrome . Yes , you know , it could be very much be that way . You know , what dawned on my mind as we're talking about this is even like when I was in college , half oh , when I say like maybe three quarters of the way until I was . I started off as a bio major and then I switched to general science because it just wasn't working . And I remember , like when I did switch , that I excelled better , I was in the dean's list and everything .

Speaker 1 9:12

Once I did change my major and it , you know when I it made me even wonder like , sometimes , like , okay , you know , I I'm going to be honest that where I switched my with my degree to , I thought it was easy , I didn't , I didn't really have to like put an hours of studying to get on the dean's list . So then when I did get on , I'm like , but wait , I didn't even have to do much to get here . So it was also me like again that thought process of you have to strain , struggle , not sleep , and literally I was on 19 credits and I'm literally just doing what I need to do to get off , and I found the major easy , I found the classes easy and I got all A's in them and I was in the dean's list

Navigating Imposter Syndrome and Perfectionism

Speaker 1 9:50

. But it made me just wonder , like , is this even worthy ? Because I didn't . I didn't have to struggle this way .

Speaker 2 9:56

Why do we have to struggle for it to be worth the grind ? I think culture the grind the hustle .

Speaker 1 10:02

If you're not hustling and grinding , if I'm not depleted after every week , then I'm not doing enough . It's not perfect , and that's it's just . It's just not it's not .

Speaker 1 10:10

It's not the case with everything , and also , it's not God's design for us to be that way . It's this culture that is telling us to do this , you know . And so then I do believe , when we do get the accolades and awards and you know , we've , we have , we've , we've felt like we've not been that way or we're not , we haven't really like gone to the ends of the earth to deplete our stuff , we often wonder is it even worthy enough ?

Speaker 2 10:32

because we didn't have to do much to to do to obtain this yeah Cause . Then it's like well , are they just handing these things out Like ?

Speaker 1 10:38

anyone can get it , Cause I didn't have to do much right .

Speaker 2 10:41

And if , if I think it's like the , the , the that's super bold , and like the envy , like if anyone can get this the Emmy , the Grammy , oscar you're thinking , then what if it's ?

Speaker 1 10:50

if it's that easy then , but I think it also it glorifies the other end of that , like Sometimes we do get the promotion because we were that overachiever , because we did too much , because we were you know , you know not sleeping and so we did overcompensating . So then , if you're only giving the promotion and the awards to those people , then people feel like I have to do that to attain that you know it's .

Speaker 1 11:14

It's wild out here or if , if we know that's how , like maybe Barbara got it that way , but then Simone didn't have to do too much to get it then you wonder , why are they favoring one over the other one ? We know Simone didn't work as hard as Barbara to do it . But also , what is the definition of work ?

Speaker 2 11:30

I was just about to say and who and who Determines , like , what hard work is . That is for hours , there we go . Is it 80 ?

Speaker 1 11:38

so working on the weekends and spending your time . What does that look like ?

Speaker 2 11:41

and so that's it's gonna look different , it is .

Speaker 1 11:46

It is and there's a threshold right I think we think that we need to obtain , or it needs to be perfect . If I don't obtain this , then I'm not Overdoing or overexciting or overdoing what I need to do and it's , it's just simply not true . I think , like you said , it looks different to everybody . I think has been a nine to five , or I think me working my nine to five . I'm doing what I need to do . If I work , just have to work till six or work till seven , now even to five or one . Even I even I don't glorify that because what ? That's the ghetto , why am I even working ?

Speaker 2 12:21

You're right .

Speaker 1 12:22

We used to think that that's gonna show them that I care if I answer him on the weekends , that I I want to take one for the team and I've learned and thank you , jesus , for like getting me here I don't gotta do all that . I'm taking my PTO , I'm taking the days off , I'm I'm leaving at five .

Speaker 1 12:37

It's not determined by yeah how many hours I Know and if I do decide to stay late , it's on my own man , not because I'm trying to obtain Right , that only comes because you think like you're not enough as you are .

Speaker 1 13:02

Yeah , you gotta do more , and sometimes even I feel like , okay , maybe like from nine to nine to nine to nine to eleven , I don't think I was really doing enough . I was really super tired from last night so I did a little bit , so now I gotta work extra to make up for those three hours that I wasn't fully my . The 30% was all I had from nine to 11 and then I escalated to 80% the rest of the day . So why don't we accept ourselves for where we are at given times , and that's okay ? Why do we feel like we have to make up for not maybe being has a productive during a certain time , or maybe ? And also , what is ? Is the , the , the , the , the , the ? The Image we making our head is that we weren't as productive . But what is the definition of productive to everyone ? Like , what does that mean ? Is that mean ?

Speaker 2 13:45

like you . It's what I look different All right .

Speaker 1 13:46

Is that mean me being off the computer ? You know , from night to love and not doing anything .

Speaker 2 13:51

Is it ?

Speaker 1 13:51

one task for me . Yeah yeah , is it meetings ?

Speaker 2 13:54

from night what is productive . And some people like I work for two hours today . I got so much done and that was productive based on correct Well clock in eight hours and then they're really like , while you got in the whole time . So it really varies .

Speaker 1 14:05

It really varies and it's for you to determine , like what is what , what is your threshold , and that's what you meet . That's also . Then you've done what you need to do . You know For there .

Speaker 2 14:14

So what are these five types ? Okay , well , first of all , there are five times of it on Buster syndrome and we were going through this list . So I'm going to go over the list and then we can talk about what . What type of embosses ? Oh , because we have this syndrome . By the way , guys , which , which category do we fit in ? Peachy to the quiet ?

Speaker 2 14:38

First one is the perfectionist , number two is the experts , number three is the natural genius , number four is the soloist and number five is the superperson . Select Superman or superwoman . And when I was reading through this I think I I like teeter between two , so I go be back and forth between the perfectionist and the soloist . So the perfectionists this type of imposter syndrome involves Believing that , unless you were absolutely perfect , you could have done better . You feel like an imposter Because your perfectionistic traits make you believe that you're not as good as others might think you are . And Then a soloist . It's also possible to feel like an imposter if you , if you had to ask for help to reach a certain level or status , since you couldn't get there on your own . You question your competence or abilities . So it's like . So this is kind of like . I just want to do this by myself . I don't need your help . I don't need anyone like assisting me because otherwise I didn't earn this thing on my own . So that's kind of perfectionist , we all know . Wow , what about you ?

Speaker 1 15:50

So I think I'm a freshness as well , you know .

Speaker 1 15:55

Like I tend to believe , like if it wasn't done perfectly , then I could have done better . You know , I do believe some my perfectionism Triggers coming during that time . Yeah , you know , I also think I can . I think I can . I can't be the super . The super person again is the type of imposter syndrome involves believing that you must be the hardest worker or reach the highest Levels of cheap , impossible . If you don't , you are fraud . I think I can probably Teeter there really well . Wow , you know , yeah , I think , I think I think I can teeter there too . You know , in terms of just have making sure that , like , even if I'm only giving 30% , that is me working hard at that time . You know what I mean at that . You know that area , you know . And not believing that , you know I'm just , you know fraud or whatever may be you know , right right .

Speaker 2 17:00

And the thing that's terrible about this perfectionist thing is like even if something is like 90% Good , 80% , we focus on that , like 20% into right . You can't even see , like all this , like it has to be flawless , it has to , and even who knows like the thing with perfectionism is like it's like in the eye of the beholder .

Speaker 2 17:20

So yeah it might even be . I've done things where I'm not come on . This thing is horrible . It's ugly , it's dumb . I hate it . Oh my god , it's beautiful , yeah , but then here you are niggas , something is so bad , trying to get it to be perfect before you even share it with anyone or enjoy it , but other people are like it was . It was fine , like 10 minutes ago .

Speaker 1 17:42

Like you know you're upset

Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Self-Doubt

Speaker 1 17:44

.

Speaker 2 17:44

I feel like I spent so many hours obsessing over the small details of things . Like it has to be .

Speaker 1 17:51

And then I see like you know , because you want it to be okay and like and like you said , it's in the vibe of the beholder , so maybe even like what we think it's . If we give something and it's like this is perfect , the other person may be like , well , no , you could have done this , this , this , this is third .

Speaker 1 18:06

So , what does that ? You know it's , it's . It's different to everyone , because even I remember when I used to be in in school and writing a paper and I'm like I'm just trying to get this thing , oh it's 10 pages , let me just get this over with . And I'm like this is garbage . And then I get it back , I'm like and I'm just like , wait , really . And then I go back and really like , oh wait , I actually knew something here , you know . But I think we , we tend to focus on what we said , we didn't do , you know , versus on how it really is , and so I have to question myself Was I really deserving of a b ?

Speaker 2 18:36

like , really I feel like I should have been a d because I was .

Speaker 1 18:40

I was just winging that thing , you know , but I think it was doubting my own abilities that even if I didn't want to do it , I'm still doing the best that I can . So you know it's , it's wild . The pressure thing is the pressure that we put on ourselves is , is it's not realistic ? Right .

Speaker 2 18:56

Because you're not gonna get it . Excuse me a hundred percent every single time , right .

Speaker 1 19:00

There's . We gotta leave room for error . Yes , you have to leave room for error , and nothing is ever gonna be perfect . There's always room for improvement in areas you know , even as we're doing this part . Another example would be like okay , we're . When we first saw we're . Like okay , we got to make sure everything sounds correct . We got to make sure everything .

Speaker 2 19:17

The right song . The right song .

Speaker 1 19:18

I remember when we're starting , we're like so many little like nitpicking little things and we had to like really Revert our minds of not to be so critical on the smallest things , because we are learning this , we're trying to figure out how to navigate it . There's it's going to be a learning curve , is going to take time , so we cannot be so hard on ourselves or critique ourselves so much . Don't get me wrong .

Speaker 1 19:39

It's good to have a constructive criticism on what but , um , as far as like , even like , okay , let's make sure that , like okay , let's we're we're even promoting it so that we can , you know , make sure people know that it's coming out , is it's doing the thing , and I think sometimes I think I felt a little bit of hesitation to promote it because I was like it's not permanent , it's not I don't know , it's no sound this and all of these .

Speaker 1 20:06

It's here you know , we're even , we're not . You know , I I don't feel we could . We could have promoted it more than what we had Done , but I think that it was that out backwards of like okay , what if it's not , what if it's not this , what if it's not that ?

Speaker 2 20:18

and then worrying that it's like not Ready right . I think we struggle with that a lot . I don't know if . I like , yes , it ready , yes , the picture In the color and the artwork , and it's like but we noticed , I think , for me , I think that's the hardest thing . I'm like because , like my husband tells me this all the time like , sir , I didn't even see what are you doing , I didn't even see that thing that you're talking about and I'm like what do you mean ?

Speaker 1 20:47

It's right there .

Speaker 2 20:48

It's like I did you not notice ? And because I noticed everything , I'm back . He's like nobody's gonna see that small little smudge , or like whatever you're talking about , you're crazy . So it's like my god , I see it .

Speaker 1 21:01

So then it's that beer again . That that kind of can consume me , if you let it , and I think , once you've already trained your mind to look at those little things , you know , you look at those little things of every aspect of your life , and then you're judging yourself on and in other people too .

Speaker 1 21:16

So we can also be critical of other people , and so we tend to look at it like oh , that's not done right or that's not , it don't get wrong , it's good to be detail oriented . See details when they do not . Okay , you misspelled that word . It's about to go out to 8500 people . You may want to correct that word . But like but some , in some areas it it doesn't matter . Okay , like you put something out , or like maybe , like you're in the car and you're like oh , my goodness , I have a stain on my sweater .

Speaker 2 21:39

Am I gonna turn around this ?

Speaker 1 21:40

car and go all the way home Like and , and maybe no one might even notice it , they might not even you know and it's like , but then you feel so to carry the day because you know it's there but you're like , oh my god , people gonna notice this and they have time to go change and even know I had it stayed on my sweater , you know , but if the grand scheme thing isn't a big deal , no , it's not , but we make those little things a big deal . You know it's hard . It can be very , very hard when you have already that preconceived mindset . So it's unlearning and rewiring your brain to think of the 80% .

Speaker 1 22:11

Yes versus the 20% .

Speaker 2 22:13

Even if , like you said , okay , so even if release that podcast , and maybe that song wasn't like the best or the the picture wasn't that cute , is whatever you wanted , yeah , you are still like worthy of that that because it is an accomplishment . I think that's what we need to to celebrate those small little accomplishments .

Speaker 1 22:31

That was even just saying Before . I said you know , there may be a lot of things that you know aren't perfect , but how much courage does it take to even get up and do this ? How much even like I'm like , I'm proud that we were even able to just get up and like , let's just do it .

Speaker 1 22:46

We don't know what the heck we're doing , but we're just gonna get up and do it and just try to figure it out and we're gonna fall and we're gonna get back Up again because we're gonna grow we're gonna grow and we're gonna learn and all of these things , and so it's like focusing on that part of it , versus what is wrong , you know , at the end of the day and I think it just makes it it's game changer when you can really flip or change your perspective in that aspect .

Speaker 2 23:08

You have to , you have to you definitely do .

Speaker 1 23:11

You have to , because if not then you end up being stuck , you don't go nowhere , because then you , you never go . Left or right , you'll never move . Right You're , you're afraid to move .

Speaker 2 23:21

You are very much so afraid to move .

Speaker 1 23:22

I agree , I agree 110 percent . You know um , so there are any like examples that you can think of . You know in your life that you know where imposter syndrome was like , really like like maybe you didn't know you had imposter syndrome . But now you know , now you're like , oh wait .

Speaker 2 23:41

I didn't know I had it I know a while ago , but okay , so I'll tell the funny story that I just told you .

Speaker 1 23:46

So last week , I was at work and we're doing .

Speaker 2 23:50

I work from home , I work remotely and , um , every I'm in sales . So you know it's all about revenue and how much uh , your sale , your numbers are how much you produce , and you're judged by every quarter . So we were , we were on a call with a hotel and we were going over fourth quarter numbers and , um , they were doing a whole presentation and thanking my team I'm on on a team of 14 people and they were talking about how you guys were so great last year and we had a great quarter and we thank you for your contributions . And then , like , at the end of the call , they were like we're gonna do a shout out to the um , the top sellers of the fourth quarter . So you know , I'm just like I probably haven't finished this school so we can get back to work .

Speaker 1 24:29

Like .

Speaker 2 24:29

I wasn't even really paying attention as much as I really should have . And then like they were like these are our top three sellers for the quarter , and that was one of the top three was me , my . The co-worker said I was . When I tell you , I was so shocked and taken aback when they said my name . There were congratulations to our top sellers . I had my picture the the sale . I think I did like a hundred thousand dollars , that um , for that specific hotel , that quarter . I was like it should have been .

Speaker 2 24:58

That's so it was so dope , but the first thing that came to my mind was did they make a mistake like ? Did they type my name incorrectly on this ?

Speaker 1 25:07

Is it really me ?

Speaker 2 25:11

I'm like there's no way I was in the top three . That's 14 of us .

Speaker 1 25:15

I'm really new to my team . You were like caught on with veterans . I was so caught off guard .

Speaker 2 25:19

But I really was like no , they made a mistake . This is a typo . It's like I was like no , sarah , they have your group there . Listen , they have your face , they got your name , they got it correct . And then everyone on my team is like congrats , sarah , good job . And me , my co-worker . I virtually had five in each other , but I was like thanks , sarah . The first thing that came to your mind was like you couldn't believe it , or they made a mistake , or Doubt yeah , that was it was , though .

Speaker 2 25:42

Yeah , so I was like that that's wow , that's , that's not healthy .

Speaker 1 25:46

No , it's not and I don't , and I think maybe even before we wouldn't have think that anything was wrong with that , because I I have to see myself do that to in certain things as well . But now , like you're saying , you're like , oh my god , that's a perfect example , that was a perfect example .

Speaker 2 26:00

I was like man , so you got a . Really I thought I was working on that , but I really got to retrain and rewire my way of thinking because that even bumped me up . And then it this was like a morning call , like 10 am , and then I was such a great day after that at work , so I was like you know what Motor vehicle Put a fire under my butt and put the fire is already there , that was like , let me up .

Speaker 1 26:19

Yes , you know , because we talk about the applause . Yes , I , this is my job .

Speaker 2 26:23

That's what I get paid to do . I don't expect an applause for doing my job .

Speaker 1 26:27

Correct .

Speaker 2 26:27

But when somebody does shat you I mean there was like 40 people on that call so for them to do it in front of all those people , especially Working in an environment , a remote environment , right , I never see my co-workers in person .

Speaker 1 26:40

Probably ever yeah .

Speaker 2 26:41

So like to get that applause , that recognition . People do see you .

Speaker 1 26:45

Yeah , they're seeing . Yeah , I got you . That's so really nice it is . It goes a long way , I agree . I agree , and I think sometimes we don't realize how that , that little bit can propel you and make you feel so good and make you Want to just like go even above and beyond and keep going , yeah you know , and I think , um , especially , like you said , it wasn't 40 people . You know and you know being new to the team , you know being 100 comfortable in my role because this is a new role and we talk about being

Speaker 2 27:21

you know I'm the only black person on my team , so that comes with a whole realm of of doubt and questioning . And am I good enough ? So like ?

Speaker 1 27:30

I think I would have been uncomfortable . I wouldn't know what to do with that because I think that was for a minute , yeah , like I'm like , like , because you just should have turned my camera on .

Speaker 2 27:39

Yeah , because it's like pray , right , because it's like praise .

Speaker 1 27:43

But it's like okay , um say you know , I don't know things , you know like I . I don't think I would have even like sat in it , it would have just been a quick bypass oh , thank you so much and let's move on , because what we talk about being bragging correct .

Speaker 2 27:56

We talk about like yeah part of like the imposter syndrome thing is like you like , not um , like , like not bragging , but like celebrating your accomplishments it's almost like showing off so we don't do . We're not those kind of people , right ? No , we don't want to like what with me . I know I don't like a lot of attention on myself . And look at me , look what I did and like promoting yourself a lot like that's not like how .

Speaker 1 28:21

That's just not how I grew up and how what I was taught , and so what other ? People yeah , so what other people . Right , it's doing other people . It's very foreign because and also now that I'm thinking about it , because we grown , we didn't grow up that way , I don't . I don't think I do it to myself often , so therefore I'm not doing it to myself , so for us somebody else to do it to me , it's like what are ?

Speaker 2 28:41

you doing super uncomfortable .

Speaker 1 28:44

Stop it , can we

Believing in Our Accomplishments and Worth

Speaker 1 28:49

move on . I don't think anything is wrong with that , you know again , and it's anything , it's healthy , probably it's very healthy .

Speaker 1 28:56

I think it , you it is , and it makes people feel good , it motivates people and , like you said , whether or not we get the accolades or the whatever the awards , I'm still going to be me and still do my job to the best of my ability , because that's what they pay me for , that's what I and that's how I want to steward my time and also the the responsibility I'm given . I want to make sure that I'm doing it right . I don't necessarily need like that , the applause or anything like that isn't good to hear absolutely but I think we could sometimes live where it's like I'm just doing what I need to do so .

Speaker 2 29:26

I'm not doing anything granular , right you ?

Speaker 1 29:29

know that needs that . So why am I , you know so , even for you to say that it's like okay , you know ? So I think we're so quickly to just like bypass and I'm like thanks , and keep on moving and not fully in just or dissect or sit in it like I think fully process what has happened ?

Speaker 2 29:44

what is ? That well , okay for me , we talked about doubt . But why else do you think we can't sit in like if someone is literally applauding you and saying , because of what you've been in your efforts , you've helped us accomplish this goal ? Yeah , thank you . Why ? Why is that so hard to be like god , you're welcome . I did do that , is it ? I think I want to say I hate to say , but I think it's like a self-esteem issue , right part of it maybe , maybe self-worth , like am I even worthy of it ?

Speaker 1 30:14

like I don't , I don't know , I'm I ? That's a good question . I'm even trying to figure out , because even it brings me back to even , like you know , some of my therapy sessions , and it's like you've overcame this and you've done this and you've done that , and it's and it's like she starts listening listening all of the things I've been working on , the things I've grown and I'm like um , okay , thanks , like I I didn't , I didn't know what to do .

Speaker 1 30:35

That like I definitely like I've learned to be like , okay , thank you , I appreciate that , thank you for that . But I think it was like , I think we don't fully believe , I don't think that we did that we , we , I don't think we fully believe that maybe we've done it , we've really overcome it . I think it's hard to to even like okay , there's doubt , but I think it's hard to even like digest it . What's the word I'm looking for ? I feel it's like fully believe that you really you really have come from far , like you really have done all of these things , that you really are worthy of this . I think it's a belief system that we have you accomplished these things .

Speaker 1 31:09

It wasn't luck for the lack of a better word . You know like who is that ? So I think it's actually the believing and accepting that of ourselves and I think in two you can get to that egg . You will be questioning like okay , thank you , I got to that , but hey , next , all right , thank you . So I think you're sitting in the belief that you know when someone is especially if it's somebody and they're genuine they're really coming and telling you this we have , we , I think it's .

Speaker 1 31:35

We have to better practice how to believe it and really absorb it and really you know , again , we're not saying to get , get a high horse or get a big head or you know anything like that , but like , just be like you are doing good , you are being part of the small things that you've overcome it with your um and challenge that you are smart , right , it's like you are competent . Yes , you know what you're doing in this up . They did hire you for a reason .

Speaker 2 31:58

Yeah right , yeah because I think a lot of us feel like , and you're still here for a reason I'm not gonna find you , so you do do something .

Speaker 1 32:04

But I again , we tend to focus on the negative of what we're not like where we're not , we're not meeting , versus what we are meeting . You know , and I think that can be , um , you know , like very detrimental .

Speaker 2 32:16

You know to that , you know to your success and I was reading that a lot of women and a lot of like um , minorities suffer with imposter syndrome . Why do you think ? I think I don't know , but why do you think women are more so than men would suffer because I , you know not , I think about , I never hear I'm saying like I'm not qualified to be here . Why do they choose me ?

Speaker 1 32:39

I think because we're already on the bottom of the totem pole of the hierarchy and we have , we've just had to fight and prove ourselves so much , and sometimes I think we , you know , just to even like put our name for ourselves being black minority women , you know , and I think that it comes with its own oppression . And then it's like so not only do we have to fight to even get to where we are , we also have to fight to believe that we deserve to be where we are . You know what I mean . So it's like another layer on that .

Speaker 1 33:08

So I I'm not surprised that it is you know , minority women yeah , and and we're the ones having to like , really , um , dissect and believe those things honestly , um , because I think we're in society , because sometimes we talk that it's it's the man's world and the man is the one , but it's selling and doing better , stronger , smarter but now women are ruling the world . Now women are being more ambitious , women are getting those accolades and being promoted being those ceo and they said we couldn't yeah you and they are earning them and it's the work that they're doing and you know it's it's .

Speaker 1 33:42

It's a lot of thing encompassing , you know , yeah so no one just gave this to you , I think , I think we need to stop like no someone just gave you something like for no reason .

Speaker 2 33:52

No , you are working hard about it you earned it , you deserved it .

Speaker 1 33:56

You put in the effort that needed to get there . We're not just sitting here and just asking oh , won't come to me , come to me , no , you know you belong here .

Speaker 2 34:04

Right , you belong here . You belong here . I think especially , quote unquote corporate america right and I also think it's like when you don't see yeah , you know a lot of people that look like you in positions of right power . Right like the effort , the higher up go .

Speaker 1 34:22

Yeah , no , you're right . Yeah , the less and less correct .

Speaker 2 34:27

So then , you're like well , have I never seen anybody that look like me up here , then maybe we can't get up . You know what I mean ?

Speaker 1 34:31

you start believing it and it's , I think . I also think it's it would . It would only make sense to question yourself when you get to that level , right , because you don't see a lot of you up there . So I think it would only make sense to do that and to be like but wait , you know .

Speaker 1 34:46

But again , like I said , we just tend to focus on um the negative because even I'll give an example of mine when , um , you know , I had the last couple of weeks , I had a performance review and it's two parts where we have to review ourselves , um , at work , and then , um , our supervisor reviews us and on my part , I just wrote myself okay , I'm successful in this , you know , like , not even like , like , just like I , I need everything .

Speaker 1 35:07

You know , it is what it is , I'm good , this and that . And then my supervisor something she wrote in me as exceeds performance , and I was just like , wait , what like ? And then the commentary that she put was just affirming me and saying I do this well and doing it like many , many things that I do well and how she likes that I do this and how I , you know , lead things and all of these other things . I agreed , but I think it was hard to I that and I think it , but I think it was I when , when she said it the way she said it , I could see why she said that because of the work that I've done , but I think it was I . I still am struggling to fully believe all of that and I think , um , even as she's , saying it to you .

Speaker 2 35:46

Yes , I think it's hard for me to believe that , like all of it like wait , because again .

Speaker 1 35:50

I I'm focusing on I don't go there on time every day . Some days I'm 30 percent , some days I'm not good . You know , I didn't really put on my head like I was just I just did that to get back , you know .

Speaker 1 36:01

So my mind is focusing on the what like , maybe the things that I thought that I didn't do a par , and then not on what I have done or what I have come , because even like on a daily day , daily day , I'd be like man , I don't think like I did the most that I could do , mind you I was in five meetings and I answered three calls and that was the day and that's .

Speaker 1 36:20

But is that not ? Is that not enough ? I think again , going back to what , what do we think enough is for the day ? So when I read all of that , I was like , oh my god , like I am doing . You know all of this , I am being this way , I am growing , I am , you know , and it just I think I needed that reminder to like to , to boost to the yeah , to be like okay , you know you are on the right track , you are doing it . It may not , it's not perfect , no way it's not perfect , it doesn't have to be perfect , but you're doing enough for them to see that you are showing up , you are doing it . You know you're still employed . They haven't fired you yet

Celebrating Small Wins and Authenticity

Speaker 1 37:02

.

Speaker 1 37:02

Right , like all of these up verses being nice to me , like it's a conspiracy , like no , they're not just being like yeah , right , exactly , are you being nice or you're really being meaningful with what you're saying and I do believe they were being very meaningful what they're saying , but I think again in my mind , it's like they can't say that because I'm late . So it's like it's easy to . It's easy to , I think , like write ourselves off Then to even really see this . And I think , like when we see we're like okay , yes , we agree , okay , you know I , you know it's like the whole thing with therapy .

Speaker 1 37:36

I have been through you know these things , I did do these things . But again I think , and maybe that's a practice of like Writing down what you've done , what you've gone through , maybe the maybe at the end of the week and maybe I need to do this practice for myself what have you accomplished this week ? That was tough , was you know ? And like to the end of the week and you're like I did this report , I did this , I did that . I showed up , I went to a Zumba class , I went to the gym , like just to celebrate what , that you showed up for certain things and not and it wasn't perfect Maybe you wanted to go five days to the gym . They made it two days .

Speaker 2 38:08

God dang it . You made it two days .

Speaker 1 38:10

Celebrate it , right , you know especially if it's not your norm . You work consistent with that , you know . I think we need to celebrate those small wins , oh small nuggets of things that we do , you know waiting for some big things . Right like not Right only want to celebrate now that I've lost 50 pounds . No , what about you ? Show that Right ? Oh , I cooked a meal at home today . You know , I just said because I didn't cook a meal at home today you know , and .

Speaker 1 38:37

I've been eating out all my sweet , but I cooked it at home , I cooked it at home , I went grocery shopping you know as tired as I was . Like why don't we say like maybe I didn't eat out five days , but I ate out . I ate out only three days . You know what I mean ? Like I think we need to Be mindful that , because I think it motivates us to keep going . I felt like sometimes we can write ourselves off because it didn't look , it wasn't perfect , because I wanted five days and I only did three . I'm now I'm gonna throw the whole , the whole thing away and we can't do that .

Speaker 2 39:04

We shouldn't do that . I want to like . I just read this book . I looked up the quote . I just finished reading this book by bernie brown . It's called braving the wilderness and one of those quotes that she said . Like every time I read a book and I Like , get a quote that's like speaks to me , I either write it down , highlighted , a copy paste it , post it and one of the quotes she said was stop walking through the world looking for confirmation that you don't belong .

Speaker 2 39:27

You will always find it because you've made that your mission . She says stop scouring people's faces for evidence that you're not enough . You will always find it because you've made that your goal . So I think that's part of the . Yes , that's what she talks about , and when she said that I was like it hit it , hit the down ahead if we look for , for areas that we have missed to the mark . Yeah , like you were saying like why would I ? Sometimes I'm 30 minutes , oh , I'm this .

Speaker 1 39:54

I'm like we keep looking for all this , maybe I'm noticing that yeah . We need to stop .

Speaker 2 40:01

Wow .

Speaker 1 40:03

Well , no , it's true , like we didn't , we didn't make , we didn't meet , we didn't meet our , you know , we didn't meet ourselves here .

Speaker 2 40:08

We didn't do this , or they're not gonna like me because I'm this or I don't nobody here Looks like me or talks like me , or you know , yes , you know , I think we again .

Speaker 1 40:17

What do we do like ? And I think it can be in all aspects of like , like , maybe , okay , like man , I wasn't able to show up for a friend . I really wanted to go to our birthday but , man , the day was rough and I didn't make it . But what about the other times I showed up ? You know why do we tend to ?

Speaker 2 40:30

write us off at the one time that we just couldn't do it .

Speaker 1 40:33

We didn't have the capacity . That's the perfection of it . We want to be perfect All , all the time . We want to be perfect . We're showing that we're here every day , but also is I , I feel , not who that in itself , I think the person will rather you show up when you're able to and what is necessary to show up , that to be consistent , and you're depleting and your upper capacity and you're just For the sake of just showing , oh , I'm here .

Speaker 2 41:03

So that was that a fantasy right .

Speaker 1 41:04

Right , because then you're there , but you're not really there . So then we can tell right , I would rather my friends , I would . Just , if you're able to give the capacity , please do it . I'm not really cooling you if you're not able to do it , because I want it to be authentic and I always , I would always , say this I don't want to force anybody to do anything that they don't want to do . Yeah , thank you . And I also don't want Anyone to force me .

Speaker 2 41:29

To that part too , and I , and if it's not , genuinely from your heart .

Speaker 1 41:33

I don't want it . I shouldn't have to tell you , like , if you like , let's say you come in today and you buy me a copy , I'd be like , oh , thank you so much . I know it's generally from my heart . I don't feel like I need to be telling you . I don't even want it . If you're not , if you're not really coming authentically to me with this gift or item , I'm not about to sit here and ask for it from you , because now , what am I trying to do ? I'm trying to make you , make me important , and I don't think that's fair , you know . So . You know we have to . It's really um , cultivating that space , to um Just acknowledge , like , where we are and and really , you know , follow them through and how we want to really show up . You know it's mindfulness , it is , it is , and analyzing . You know , like , this is where I'm at , this is where I suffer and how can we go about it , you know .

Overcoming Self-Worth Issues and Believing

Speaker 1 42:23

So what do you think are some ways that people can come back in Busters ?

Speaker 2 42:27

How do we get better ? First of all , identifying right . Yes .

Speaker 1 42:34

I have a problem with these .

Speaker 2 42:36

Mr Bob the problem is me what triggers ? What are your triggers ? We talked about like , maybe this is not something that you've always had . We talked about maybe got a new , either job position title , right I think that can be something that may trigger that . So I think , identifying that , what that trigger is , and once you identify , then I think you can start working on it . So we talked about what I believe . I believe the root cause of it is like a self-worth , self-esteem issue . So now you have to work on your self-confidence .

Speaker 1 43:12

And also like what are the core beliefs that you hold about yourself ? Like asking yourself these questions do you believe you're worthy ? Do you think you need other people's validation and approval ? Like all of these things , I think , have a new reflective questions of yourself to get to the root of that , because I do believe it's also a belief system , you know , of what you believe about yourself that shows up that way .

Speaker 2 43:34

That inner critic that we always talk about . I know we have to talk about that my own worst critic . I feel like I can cheer other people on but myself . I'm really hard on myself . So I'm learning to love myself a little bit more and accepted myself with all my flaws .

Speaker 1 43:49

It's hard , it's hard to swallow , but then I also think about okay , god accepts me as I am . Why can't I accept myself ? He made me and he's the one who accepts me . Why am I having a hard time accepting who I am ? But it's a work in progress and we have to get there . And I think it's like just seeing myself how God sees me . I'm already worthy , I'm already validated , I'm already affirmed by him . So I don't really need the external exorcises , because , whether or not you're complimenting or not , I'm good right Because you believe it . But is it good to hear ? Yes , I think we do need to hear it . I think it's good to hear it , but we're not holding value in those things . I'm still going to be able to move forward , whether or not I hear it from people or not , and believing and holding towards that .

Speaker 2 44:34

Another one is the acknowledging of your own accomplishments right . I think sometimes we're waiting for somebody else to acknowledge you , but why can't I acknowledge ? Like I ran three miles today I got that award . I wrote three pages today on my paper . There you go , so if you like , instead of focusing on the shortcomings that we talked about , focus on what you were able to accomplish today .

Speaker 1 45:00

There you go . Yes , also , stop comparing yourself to other people . That's a hard one , because it's so easy to fall into the comparison trap , but just knowing everyone is their own journey , everyone is their own path , and it's not going to be the best to do that . Honestly , I think we just need to run our own race run our own journey . You don't want that .

Speaker 2 45:22

And it's so easy to fall into social media .

Speaker 1 45:24

You can fall into it so quickly .

Speaker 2 45:25

Stop comparing yourself to other people , I just , Johnny have it and I don't Take a social media break .

Speaker 1 45:29

I think my friend Eric was telling me that he's this .

Speaker 2 45:32

The other day I was like I had to take a . What is it ? Two weeks off from Instagram . He's like . I've been telling you to take that social media break for so long because he always like consistently takes breaks yeah . And I'm like I was just with you . I couldn't even tag you on this thing because you're not on social media . It's like I take my break , because sometimes I have to not be in that space so often Because he loves to post . We all love to post .

Speaker 2 45:56

But he was like it's really important to take a social media break . So I just did that for the first time last year . I don't know , he's been telling me to do that thing for years , so yes , take a social media break or just get off the dang thing . Sometimes it's too much .

Speaker 1 46:07

Yes , yes , I hear you . Another one I would say is be patient and give yourself grace , like you didn't get here overnight , so it's not going to be unlearned overnight , and hold space for the grace and for the learning and getting to the place where you get to acceptance , you get to the belief , you get to the loving of yourself . All of that it does take time . It's not overnight . We grew up in a culture where that stuff was just never really taught to us , I think , and it was not really . It's not ingrained in us , it's not ingrained in us .

Speaker 1 46:36

So it's something that we have to unlearn the negative and relearn in a positive way . And it takes time and there will be times in life where it may be triggered more . But the good thing is , when you've gone through it , you know the tools of what you need to do to get you back on track Right Like oh , I feel it , I know now what it is . Like you said , the first thing is addressing that you even have it . If you don't even know what it is , how can you even choose ?

Speaker 2 46:55

Fix it . I agree , that's what I'm like . Big on mom trust . Now , like in my office , on my desk I have all these posts . It's like you are great , you are a whiz . Word is like power .

Speaker 1 47:09

Yeah , I'm telling myself this .

Speaker 2 47:10

I'm capable .

Speaker 1 47:12

I'm hard work , like you , I think repeating this , especially like you were never really affirmed or had that when you were younger . It's so important to do that to yourself now , I am so impressed . You know , and I think because everything I think stems from childhood and you really need , like the little , you needs to be affirmed , and maybe that's why we're where we are , because we were not affirmed in those . So , even like those who have young ones , you know , it's good to affirm them and not to be smart .

Speaker 1 47:35

Positive affirmation , positive affirmations . Yes , I agree , yes , it really does make a difference .

Speaker 2 47:41

It does . And then I was well , our go to therapy .

Speaker 1 47:45

Yes , talk to someone , get it out .

Speaker 2 47:47

Get it out , get it out , get it out and getting to the root of all these things and the who , what , where , why , correct Talking about your feelings . I think it can be super helpful letting it out , yeah .

Speaker 1 48:00

And letting every and just knowing where you are , where you stand , you know , and I think it's so important for that , you know , because super important . I think it's something that can be overcome . It's not a destiny to thank God , you know . So I think it's we can all overcome . This is just acknowledging and adequately doing the steps to overcoming it . Yeah , and it's like it's a , it's a work in progress and I think as you get older , you have more life experiences , the more I think you get used to like okay , I can .

Speaker 2 48:28

I can do . You know what I mean . I can , yeah , believe I can . I don't have to doubt myself .

Speaker 1 48:33

I've . I've been down this for 10 years . I yeah .

Speaker 2 48:37

I'm capable . I've been this long yeah .

Speaker 1 48:40

I can understand what it's like . Maybe one or two years in you're like I haven't even covered my own .

Speaker 2 48:45

I don't know , but now you're still here .

Speaker 1 48:47

You haven't been five people . You know you're still excelling , you're still growing . Yeah , believe that about yourself . Believe that you are where you're supposed to be . Oh , I love that . You know , and you are qualified , you know , believe that .

Speaker 2 49:00

Yeah , Because too many people don't . That's , that's a sad and scary part about it .

Speaker 1 49:05

It is you know , you know , and I think also I want to say like , be also that , be what somebody else needs to hear also too , if you see something in someone else that you know , maybe like oh you know , even if it's like oh , I you know . Hey , you did a really look , I was in a meeting with you , did a really good job on that report , good job on that . We all need to hear that , you know like if they're reaching out and preaching out and appreciating other people and you know affirming them .

Speaker 1 49:31

Yeah , oh , my God , I've I , I in where I'm at now . I've had other colleagues who chip up from me and I've affirmed that hey , you did really good on that . You know it's a really good , you know template that you did really good , you know , think that you did .

Speaker 2 49:42

Hey , I really enjoyed .

Speaker 1 49:42

This was , I think , you so much is really good , I really . We really needed the sauce , so thank you for making this . You know , I think all of that goes along with appreciating people , so they just know that their work is not in vain . Yeah , you know , what they do is not in vain , you know like hey , thanks for showing up or thinking , or you know , thank you for coming . Thank you for that meal .

Speaker 1 50:03

Thank you for that , you know whatever I'll call in a text go a

Appreciating People and Building Hope

Speaker 1 50:07

long way . It really does appreciating people , affirming them that they are you know , you know they are who they are , you know , and so I think it's important to do that you know but , don't lose hope , people Don't lose hope . You know ? All right , it's late and we got work in the morning , so here I hope you guys enjoyed this . I hope you learned something we did .

Speaker 2 50:33

Yes , Let us know how you your thoughts , you know your feelings and don't forget to follow us . Share , subscribe . Yes , Take them .

Speaker 1 50:40

Posta syndrome quiz if you have time to learn a lot about yourself , and I'll see you back next time . Yes , bye .